MS. STEAD SELLERS: Hello and welcome to Washington Post Live. I’m Frances Stead Sellers, a senior writer here at The Post.
Today, we're continuing our uplifting series, "The Optimist," and my guest is Amanda Kloots. She's the cohost of The Talk, and also coauthor of a new book about her husband, Nick Cordero, "Live Your Life."
Amanda, a very warm welcome to Washington Post Live.
MS. KLOOTS: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me, Frances. It's an honor to be here.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: Well, we're thrilled to have you. And I wanted to start by asking you about optimism. It's clearly such a key part of your own story and your personality, but how did you decide to make it such an important part of your public life and the messages you impart?
MS. KLOOTS: You know, I actually started sharing this publicly, my optimism part of my day, because of social media. I remember it clearly. I was laying in bed and I woke up one morning to an Instagram post that was really hard to see. It had to do with somebody that I was in business with and it really hurt. It was one of those things that you see that, like, immediately makes your day change in a negative way.
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And I quickly decided that day that I was going to switch my mood and find a positive thought. And what I did was is I started posting on my Instagram Stories everyday an AK positive thought of the day, and that's how it started. It actually started out of, you know, being so sad and so hurt and letting a possible negative thing really take me down. And you know, that isn't my personality, that's never been my personality, but that's how I started sharing it, is that AK positive thought of the day. And I think that was, like, around five or six years ago and we're still--I still do it every single day and share it on my stories every day.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: Well, I'm going to ask you more about social media in a bit. But first, tell me, how do you define optimism? And has that definition changed before Nick's death and after his death?
MS. KLOOTS: I don't think the definition has changed for me. I think it maybe just has a deeper meaning. You know, I don't know. The definition, for me, would be--optimism, you know, something--a way to make yourself happy, a way to--a smile on your face, you know, things that bring you up.
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You know, and it's not easy. I don't say it is, and I'm not trying to say that I am optimistic every second of every day, but it's just--it's ways to find that optimism, you know, to keep yourself optimistic.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: Let's talk about the book. It's beautifully written. You did it with your sister. What were some of the most challenging parts to write? And then, the most cathartic parts; there must have been some of each as you went through this memoire.
MS. KLOOTS: Oh, gosh, absolutely. I would say the most challenging part was definitely writing the end. It was--you know, it was just extremely emotional. I hadn't really shared how Nick actually passed with social media, with the world. And my sister who lives in Paris who cowrote the book with me had come back for the holidays and we were writing together instead of writing from countries apart. And so, we sat in my living area of my home every night after I put Elvis to bed, and we wrote the last final chapters of the book together and cried every single time and put things together that we necessarily hadn't put together, yet. And that was definitely, definitely, one of the hardest parts.
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You know, the book in general, writing everything from the memories that I have with Nick from the hard parts at the hospital and the whole journey, it was all cathartic. You know, when you remember happy times, it makes you feel like giddy and laughy because you remember something so happy, but then that immediately also makes you sad because you realize that those memories are gone. And then, you know, writing the parts where Nick was really sick or finding out, you know, things from the hospital and writing about those days, that was actually cathartic to just actually write down, you know what I mean? Just to get it out of my head and put it in words on a piece of paper felt very cathartic.
So, the whole process was such a healing experience for me. Therapy and everything.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: When did you realize that Nick's story would reflect and be such a sort of parable of the nation's collective trauma, but also coping?
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MS. KLOOTS: Oh, my gosh. You know, I don't know. It was such a crazy time in our world, you know? And I feel like everyone moves so fast--we all move so fast except, at that point in time, everything was moving very, very slow. But since our world has kind of opened up again and things have, you know, kind of spilled forward, it's hard to remember how crazy those days were, right? How, like--how in fear we were of being near anyone or thinking that if we walked outside of our house and touched a paper bag we might get COVID. I mean, it was so--it was such a crazy time that it's--you know, it's just been--it's just been such a learning experience, and I don't think it all finally hit me maybe until--until, like, the world started to open up a little bit. That was, like, around end of June where visitors could come back into the hospitals officially. And the army that I had created on Instagram was going really strong. I think that was, like, maybe one of the first times I realized that, like, Nick was kind of--I hate to say poster child for this disease, but that's kind of what had happened.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: Right. There was this hashtag out there, I guess, #WakeUpNick, right, as he became a sort of symbol in some ways.
But this notion of positivity is so key to recovery. Could you talk to us, in particular for people who haven't read your book, about the discussions with Nick's doctor that you had about positivity?
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MS. KLOOTS: Yes. You know, listen, in general, I'm a glass-half-full kind of girl. I will always find the positive in things. That is just my, you know--who I am, my personality.
You know, I think being in the hospital every day, especially in the ICU, it is a very hard environment. They see people sick all the time; they see people die all the time. And they are used to it and they are used to delivering horrible news and they are used to seeing families cry. And you know, one of Nick's doctors, he was like, everyone here, they don't know what to do with you because you're in this room every day and you're singing and you're smiling and you are bringing all these ideas to the table. And everyone thinks--like, they don't think that you really fully understand what's going on.
And I would always say, of course I understand what's going on. What would you rather have me do? You know, like, my husband's lying here. I don't want to sit here and cry. I want to show him smiles; I want to hold his hand; I want to sing; I want to dance. I want to be with him and give him the things that he loves as much as possible. And he said one of the best quotes I'll always take with me--he said, if you stay positive, you have options. If you're negative, you have no options. And I love that because it's so true in life. Positivity equals options. If you're negative, it stalls you. It's such a stop where positivity is a moving forward. And that will for always stay with me.
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MS. STEAD SELLERS: So, you were caught between these immensely different emotions of optimism and grief and faced with this very dire reality.
How did you bring those three things together? How did you face reality with this sort of--these two other emotions tearing you in the opposite directions?
MS. KLOOTS: Well, you know, it's funny. Retrospect is a funny thing. In retrospect, I actually don't think I was being very realistic. You know, I now look back at photos of Nick at the hospital and you can see things slowly going downhill. At the time, though, I was living in such a hopeful environment and hopeful space, because it was how I chose to--you know, I never gave up on him. I just never believed this was going to take him down. I never believed he wasn't going to get out of that hospital one day and have his, quote, "Rocky" moment. I just never let myself go there. In retrospect, though, you know, looking back, you slowly see this, you know, deteriorating life happening in front of you. So, it's funny, because I don't think, actually, I hit reality until actually he was gone. And maybe not even then, because when somebody you love so much, like a husband, passes, you're not living in reality, either. You're, like, in this mental space of, like, you don't even know where you are or what you're doing or who you are or what your name is.
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So, I don't know. Reality came maybe a few months later. Actually, writing this book actually really helped me put a lot of things into real time and real space. Because listen, you know, sometimes when you're living in this, like, hopeful, optimistic world, it's not necessarily realistic. It doesn't mean it can't come true; you know what I mean? It just means that you're, like, always on that, like, well, why not? Why can't I be the miracle? Why can't Nick be that one person, you know what I mean?
Share this articleShareMS. STEAD SELLERS: We had Michael J. Fox on talking about his own struggles with Parkinson's, and he calls himself "a realistic optimist."
Having described to me what you went through, would you counsel other people going through similar traumas to look differently at their optimism, or do you think your optimism just got you through this without the realism?
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MS. KLOOTS: Oh, I think my optimism definitely got me through this. I think also the love and the support from my family, my immediate friends, but then also from my social media army. That got me--that definitely got me through this. But I think optimism, it was--especially every day in that ICU when you are faced with such harsh truths of, you know, this is happening; this means this. And I would just be like, okay, you know, I'd smile--okay.
And he's right. Michael J. Fox is right. There is a realistic optimism, but I'd rather be realistic, an optimist, than realistic and have a negative attitude to it.
Because like I said, there's always hope. There's always that miracle. You hear about it. You hear about it all the time. So, I just never let myself believe that we couldn't be one of those stories.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: Let me ask you about another part of your belief system. You're also a woman of faith and you have these twin attractions to optimism, a secular term and then your own faith. How do you marry those two things? And also, what sets them apart in your mind? MS. KLOOTS: Hmmm. You know, I don't know if anything actually sets them apart. You know, for me, faith and religion is such a positive, such an optimistic way to live your life. And I've actually--you know, I've gone through a lot of hard times in my life. This definitely was the hardest, for sure.
And when I go through hard times in my life, I always run immediately to my faith and to God. And I've never felt--I've never felt closer to God than some of those really hard days in the hospital with Nick. I can't even explain it. It was so powerful--of a comforting presence. And because of my faith, it led to my optimism in a way that I was--I was always praying, you know, Lord, it's your will. And that, to me--because you know, I do believe that God has us all. So, I always felt like, it is your will, right now and you've got me either way. You've got us either way. And it helped my--it helped me stay optimistic. It helped me stay positive. You know, praying, listening to faith-based music. You know, I would put Aretha Franklin's Amazing Grace on in the hospital and we would just listen to that nine-minute version where you feel like you are in church and the angels are in the room. I mean, it makes you smile. It pours out hope and, yeah, for me, it's like--optimism and faith, it's like a hand-in-hand. They work together. I don't see how they are ever separate.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: So, you have talked about the army of followers on Instagram. And shortly after Nick died, you took to Instagram, and you encouraged those people, you exhorted them, to look for silver linings. Were you then at a point in your own grieving process to look for silver linings or was that sort of a point--a part of your own therapy, of gathering the strength of those people who are part of your following?
MS. KLOOTS: Yeah, I mean, I think throughout Nick's journey, I was very aware of all the different silver linings that were happening, from day one, from the time that I first said to everyone on social media that he's in the ICU and that I'm here alone with Elvis. The flood of love and support, you know, all of that stuff that kept coming in, those were all these, like, little silver linings. Family members and new friends and new bonds, you know, like, these beautiful little things that started coming into my life, two huge big things that came into my life. You know, it did--it did and it does help so much to be able to find those little things throughout the way that help mend the pain and the grief and the suffering. And so, yes, I totally encouraged people to be able to find those silver linings. And you know, I think that, if you can, it will only assist in that healing process for you. Because, again, it's--you know, silver linings are those little, happy things. They are those positive, you know, little gifts that we get.
You know, life isn't always all horrible, even through the worst of times. You know, Anna and I would say it all the time when we were writing the book. We would really write a really tough, hard section, but we would be laughing through, like, memories of my brother and Anna and I living together. And we would go, gosh, in a weird way, don't you wish we could go back to those times where it was, like, the three of us living together in the guest house. We had the best times, in the worst time. But like, you almost miss those memories of the three of us living together as adults. That never would have happened in any other circumstance. We all have our own lives and we all live in different cities and we all have our own families. Being pulled together and living together for two, three weeks, you know, that's such a silver lining. Those memories, that bond between the three of us now lives forever. You know, it's such a beautiful moment through literally the worst time.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: You have talked so positively about social media. And for other people, it can be so toxic. It's also not an immediate connection with people.
Can you explore that a little bit with me and explain the importance of social media to it, and how you resisted the negative parts of it?
MS. KLOOTS: You know, well, I'll deal with the negative first. Yes, you know, negative people are out there, negative comments on social media and the trolls. They will happen. I immediately block anything I see or delete anything I see. My page, my Instagram, or whatever social media I'm on, it's not a negative space. And I will immediately remove it and block you if that's what you're coming for, because that's not what I'm here to say.
I will tell you that that the time--you know, I think the world that we were living in was a world where we were finally all on the same playing field. Everybody was in the same spot, and we were all scared of the same thing. And I don't know if there's been a time like that ever in this world where the world stops and we all are focused on how can we help each other; how can we support each other; how can we stay safe?
And so, I do feel very lucky that there was an army that formed in a time where it was a very beautiful--again, in the worst of environments, an actual, like, beautiful time of the world coming together in hope, in prayer, in wanting to support someone in something. And that's where my following came from. So, luckily, I do feel like 99.9 percent of my following is a supportive, happy, optimistic group of people, based off of when it started forming.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: There's a notion of toxic positivity. Again, it gets back a little bit to that sort of realism we were talking about. But how did you balance your own insistence on being positive with the reality that was going on? Do you think there's a danger of this kind of toxic part of positivity?
MS. KLOOTS: You know, for me, I don't ever think that--and not to toot my own horn in any way, shape, or form. I hope I don't ever showcase toxic positivity. Because to me, that's just--that's not being a real and honest and genuine person, because I think, like I said, no one can be positive every single second of every single day. I hope when you follow me and you follow my life, and especially throughout Nick's journey, I think people could see that it wasn't all perfect. It wasn't all sunshine and roses. It was literally somebody just choosing positivity over a circumstance, and not--and it wasn't fake and it's not phony. And I really try to live a very honest life and show that, that--you know, every day is a positive outlook, but that doesn't mean every day isn't a struggle, that it's not hard to choose positivity at some point in time or admit that you had a day where you just cried all day because grief took over. That--you know, we can admit weakness. Weakness doesn't mean that you aren't positive. Crying doesn't mean that you aren't positive. So, I just--I would just hopefully for anyone that follows me or follows the story knows that, like, you know, that's just--I try to lead a very genuine and honest lifestyle.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: Amanda, you've talked about your siblings; you've talked about some of your struggles; but you also have Elvis, who you mentioned, who must be about two now, and we saw some clips of him.
Can you talk to us about the importance of raising him in the atmosphere--he's fatherless, now--and the atmosphere of how to raise him in a positive way and what that means for you?
MS. KLOOTS: Yeah. Yeah, for me, raising Elvis in a positive environment, I've just tried to show him and give him a ton of love. Because I do feel like, when you feel love, when you know how to love and when you know how to receive love, it does radiate happiness and smiles and love back. And to me, love is happiness, and happiness is positivity. So, for me being a mom, especially have a boy, I just really try to just teach him how to love and feel love.
You know, his dad was a big lover, Latin, you know, presence. And so, I feel like Nick would love that, too, you know, just to fill the home with love. Elvis is such a special little kid. From the moment he came to this world, Nick and I looked in his eyes and were like, whoa, he's an old soul. And I think that he has a lot of his dad in him. And you know, we always talk about Nick. I have no idea what the future will entail because I've never raised a child, and especially raised a child that's lost a father at the age of one. I have no idea what he understands, but I play Nick's music all the time. I play his voice all the time.
Luckily, there's a huge silver lining. Nick was a musician and an actor. I have videos of him talking and singing and performing, and that is such a blessing, because, you know, Elvis can watch him and hear him and listen to him and know that's Dada's voice, and he does, and that's really special. So, our home is, you know, filled with Nick and that will never go away. You know, hopefully, our life will continue to grow. But you know, I've talked to many widows and widowers, that--you know, that presence of the person you've lost doesn't go away and shouldn’t have to, you know?
MS. STEAD SELLERS: Amanda, your career has taken off. You're on "The Talk." You have your t-shirt company which you do with your sister. What do you think it is about you and your message that makes you so relatable, not only to Instagram followers, but the other people who are following you on these other fora?
MS. KLOOTS: Oh, well, thank you. That's very kind of you to say. You know, I would just hope that--I hope that, again, when you watch me on TV or watch me dance on "Dancing with the Stars," or whatever, you know, beautiful gifts that come my way professionally, I'm honestly just so grateful for it. I love working. I really do. I love a good hustle and I love performing, and you know, being able to use these talents on a platform as national television, it is a huge blessing.
I think that, you know, you may follow me or like me because maybe I'm that, you know, Midwest girl that is a very happy, sunny personality. But I have many different facets to myself. Like, I've lived about 19 different lives. You know, I spent 19 years in New York City, from 18 years old, performing. I've had lots of different experiences. I've been married twice. I went through a divorce then luckily found Nick but then lost him. I mean, there's so much to me that has, I think, given me a lot to work with, and a lot of life challenges. But I do think that, you know, it's molded me into a multifaceted person that hopefully you can find a piece of to relate to.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: Let's talk about one of those experiences, "Dancing with the Stars." You've talked about how your partner helped you cope. Tell us a little bit more about that. What was special about that particular, very public but also intimate event?
MS. KLOOTS: Yes. Well, you know, that kind of came out of nowhere. You accept a job such as this and you expect, oh, my gosh, I'm going to get to learn these ballroom dances and I'm going to get to perform them on Monday night, and that's so exciting.
I think what hit me about halfway through this process, as Alan and I kept getting further and further on in the competition, your hours of rehearsal get extended. And so, you're spending so much time with this person. I mean, I was seeing Alan more than anyone else in my life. And I think what hit me--and my brother came to visit and I said it to my brother. I was like, gosh, you know, you're married to somebody and you lose them. And so, you lose that presence in your life, that person that is always around. If they aren't around, you know they're going to come home and be around, and that you can cry with and you can laugh with and you can talk about goals with and you can experience new things with.
And I lost that person. And then, I, you know, spent a year-and-a-half being independent again and not having that person in my life. And so, then I got very good at being alone and being independent and going back to, like, taking care of myself and that's all fine, too. I'm very comfortable in that situation, as well. I had to deal with it after being divorced. I think what I didn't realize with Alan was--is that halfway through that competition, I realized that, oh, my gosh, I have this person in my life again that I see every day that I get to laugh with, that I get to dance with, that I get to be silly with, that I get to have some fights with, that I get to perform with, that I get to share a passion with.
And you know, we just really got along. We were just--we really did have a good time together as friends--I mean, we're still friends. And I didn't realize that I had really missed that presence in my life. And I was scared of that presence again in my life, because after you lose a husband, you know, your mind of course goes to, how am I ever going to find somebody again? You know, how--gosh, I'll have to--who is going to come into my life where I feel comfortable enough to cry with again, to hold a hand with again? And you know, it--he helped me so much feel comfortable and okay with that transition. And I was not expecting that at all. And I said it to my brother and then later confessed it to Alan, and it was very nice. It was a very unexpected thing to experience.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: Amanda, I think I have time for one last question. I'm sorry, it has to be a brief one. But we're at this moment of great uncertainty. We thought we were sort of getting through the pandemic and now we have a new variant to worry about and we're concerned about vaccines.
In a word, what is your message to all our listeners and the people you reach out to on Instagram about how to manage right now?
MS. KLOOTS: Yes, I think that the word is patience. You know, it--we all want this to be done. Please, oh my gosh, we all do. And I would just say that if we can be patient and still practice what we need to do to keep ourselves safe and to keep our, you know, world and family and friends safe. You know, we'll get through this. But it's--it's the wild, wild, West. We've never dealt with something like this before and it takes patience. So, that's--I would just say, you know, try to lean on that, because when you're not patient, you just get aggravated and angry, and you don't even know why anymore, you know? It just becomes something that overtakes you.
And so, deep breath and wear your mask and be patient.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: Deep breath and I'm going to cling to patient optimism. Amanda Kloots, thank you so much for joining me on Washington Post Live.
MS. KLOOTS: Thank you.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: That’s all we have time for today. If you’d like to see more of our upcoming programming, please go to WashingtonPostLive.com.
As always, I'm Frances Stead Sellers. Thank you so much for joining us.
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